Thursday March 1 2012 458 pm
Talking to Other Parents about Guns
Posted by Tracy Hahn-Burkett under Health & Sleep , The World We Parent In[12] Comments
When your child goes to a friend’s house, do you ever wonder if there are guns present in the friend’s home? Do you ever ask the child’s parent?
This writer, her son and their community face a painful recovery from this tragedy. But Dell’Antonia, herself the mother of four children, found herself wondering about the writer’s friend’s son, who had spent considerable time at this boy’s house. He had slept there overnight. And his mother had had no idea that there was a gun in the house or that her son’s friend could gain access to it.
Dell’Antonia questioned whether we talk as much to our children’s friend’s parents about whether they keep guns in their homes as our kids get older as we do when they’re young.* But I’d like to pose the question of whether we truly engage in these discussions at all, as so many pediatricians and safety groups recommend.
Have you asked other parents if they keep guns before letting your children–of any age–spend time without you in someone else’s home? If these parents have responded that they do own a gun, have you asked follow-up questions? Which ones? Do you ask how the guns are stored? Do you ask if they’re locked? Do you ask if the ammunition is stored separately from the guns themselves? Do you ask if the children ever have access to the guns, if they’ve had safety training, if there are trigger locks? At what point do you feel like you’re going overboard?
Is it realistic to interview other parents about guns each time your child asks for a play date?
Part of the answer, obviously, is to talk to our kids about guns. I’ve done that, and I will do it again. But relying on childish judgment in a life-and-death situation is a shaky proposition. Who really knows what will happen if children actually find themselves in an uncomfortable and/or potentially dangerous situation?
For me, what’s a bit odd here is that I generally consider myself to be overaggressive in terms of safety in many respects. (When we put our first house on the market when our older child was a year old, our realtor remarked that our house was, “the best baby-proofed house I’ve ever seen!”) But interviewing people regarding the details of what goes on in their own homes is different. How realistic is it to subject another parent to an interrogation each time your child wants to go to a new friend’s house for a play date?
I live in an area where gun ownership is common. I feel like I should probably ask every parent if he or she has a gun in the home before my child visits. But I’ll admit I haven’t always–or even often–done this. I’ve never quite known how to handle the ask-about-guns-before-a-play date conundrum.
Readers, what are your thoughts about talking to other parents about guns? And if you live in an area where many people own guns, how does that affect your answer? Would you ever consider enrolling your older child in a gun-safety class, even if you don’t approve of guns yourself, just in case your child encounters a gun?
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*In light of Monday’s fatal shooting at a high school in Chardon, Ohio, Dell’Antonia followed up her earlier Motherlode post with one today in which she asked the question, valid in both cases of teen suicide and homicide, of why some teenagers find guns to be solutions to their problems. It’s a good question that deserves serious attention. Indeed, why does anyone find guns to be the solution to his or her problems, and what can we do to change that?
March 2nd, 2012 at 1:24 pm
Tracy, a couple of years ago the dad of one of my now 8-year-old’s friends dropped his own son off at our house for a play date then hemmed and hawed before leaving, until finally, he said, “by the way, I just have to ask: do you have any firearms in the house?”
I was stunned to the point of being utterly and totally offended. I’d always kind of though his parents were a little on what I’d consider the neurotic side, including some very noticeable helicopter habits. I also felt a bit of a loss of respect for these parents, as if the blanket policy of asking of this question reflected a lack of ability to make sound judgements about people, and revealed fear-driven as opposed to rational, nuanced thinking.
(Of course we don’t have fire arms, and I told him that.)
I then began feeling uncomfortable each time my son played with theirs, as if I’d been incriminated in some way and couldn’t prove myself innocent. It didn’t help that my own parenting style is visibly far more loose with respect to many things, and I often feel that this boy’s parents are as uncomfortable with this as I am with their helicopter habits.
It turns out that while we don’t have firearms, my older son does have an archery set that this boy wound up discovering one day and telling his father about. The sense of incrimination grew, and for a few years, I couldn’t bring myself to setting up playmates with this family.
It all made me think about how very fine that line is between being concerned about safety and overstepping boundaries. And how important it is for parents to trust their own judgement about people and situations.
In the end, I decided that if I ever felt my own kids would be in that sort of danger when they were at a friend’s house, then there was something about that friendship or the friend and his/her family that wasn’t right for my kids. And that rather than overstep what I consider the boundaries to be, I’d focus instead on getting to know the friends’ parents and deciding for myself whether I feel comfortable enough with and trusting enough of them to let go of that sort of concern while my kids are with them.
Luckily, I’ve never needed to step in and steer my kids away from any particular friends. (And you’ve heard about the most uncomfortable situation we’ve faced, with a dad who did some tipsy driving. We wound up spending more time with the parents overall and getting close enough with them to be able to talk about this — and drinking in general — together.)
I do feel that a certain level of faith that certain things are as rare as getting struck by lightning is necessary for parenting lest we lose our minds.
March 3rd, 2012 at 2:56 pm
I’m still thinking about this and questioning myself about why the dad’s question about firearms upset me so much. It really struck me as odd to zero in on this one particular aspect of safety (and in suburban MA where I live, gun ownership is very rare!) that can also be associated with criminal acts and violence. There are myriad other safety concerns in any given household! For example, we have an in-ground pool. But this dad clearly trusted that we had established rules and procedures to ensure everybody’s safety in the pool. He certainly didn’t ask about that when he handed over his kid’s bag of pool gear! So then why wouldn’t he trust that even if we did have firearms, we’d be responsible enough to keep them safely locked away?
I think it was this strange mixture of trust and fear that made me feel that there was a disconnect somewhere and ponder the question of where and how to draw the line between safety concerns and irrational fear.
March 4th, 2012 at 12:56 am
I find it really interesting that the first commentor was so appalled by the the simple question if there were firearms in the house. I understand there were other factors that made that relationship uncomfortable but I can’t help but wonder if the main issue was a personal belief that the question carried implied meaning that was or was not there. It seems like the part of the offense was that by another parent asking it meant they thought she might be one of those crazy, unsafe gun nuts.
I would never be offended by the question. I have guns in my home and I would never fault another parent for asking questions to safe guard their child. In my world view, I believe that there are lots of people who own guns. Some of them secure them safely and some do not. The question is valid.
March 5th, 2012 at 9:19 am
Sharon and Crystal, thank you both for commenting. I think your very thoughtful replies show precisely why this issue is such a difficult one to navigate for many parents. People come to it with strong feelings formed by their own views on firearms, their childhood experiences, how common gun ownership is where they live, etc., and two parents can see a single question very, very differently.
Sharon, I think what makes the gun different from a pool is the instantaneous, irretrievable and deadly potential for something to go wrong combined with what might be, for some kids, a gun’s irresistible forbidden nature if they find one. Yes, a pool can be dangerous, too, of course, but there are a few moments where a mistake can be rectified. With a gun, you may not get those few moments. If something goes wrong, there may be nothing anyone can do to save a child’s life. That’s what’s so terrifying.
On the other hand, there ARE a lot of dangers in a house, and at a certain point, it can feel like you’re submitting your kids’ friends’ parents to an examination prior to allowing play dates at their houses. As my kids would say, “Awkward.” Do you just swallow the awkwardness as a price of parenting? Do you place faith in the parents, especially as your kids get older and (presumably) have more leeway in choosing their friends?
March 5th, 2012 at 10:32 am
Wow, great topic.
There was a time that my son came to me about a gun he found. He was 7. We were visiting family in the south, and my oldest nephew had a rifle in his bedroom, leaning against a wall in the corner. My son came to me and said..hey, umm, mom, there’s a rifle in there! To his credit he didn’t touch it and came right to me.
I think there are few things that led to this successful outcome.
My son loves guns: Nerf guns, obnoxiously loud electronic guns, BB guns, sandwiches eaten into the shape of guns…he loves them all and pretty much always has. Rather than try to inhibit his fascination, which would’ve been very difficult, I’ve directed his interest in good ways. We talk about guns..a LOT. This way I know what HE thinks about them, and what he has learned. He knows it’s always safety first. Instead of telling him “you and your friends may NEVER shoot nerf darts at each other!”, we focus on safety. He knows safety glasses are mandatory. More than once I have seen him pressing them into the hand of a playmate and saying “Dude, put these on!” He has a BB gun which we shoot together. This was a great way to introduce him to the basic mechanics of guns and simple things like what a safety is and why it should be on, considering what is behind your intended target, how to hold it so it is NEVER pointed at a person and why this is important. He has had the opportunity to shoot a ‘real’ gun. This allowed him to feel the heft of an actual gun and to see first hand what a bullet can do to a target. So when he saw the gun in my nephew’s room, he knew exactly what needed to be done. He was informed enough to perceive the potential danger, and wasn’t overcome with such overwhelming fascination that he touched the gun instead of telling me about it. I honestly believe that had he not had these experiences his inital curiosity and fascination would have trumped his good common sense, which could have spelled disaster.
I have never understood why some parents feel compelled to completely squash their kids’ interest in guns, even to the point of prohibiting their children from owning or playing with toy guns. Having toy guns provides great opportunities for frank discussions about guns and gun safety. It helps ferret out kids misconceptions and correct them with solid information. Things are more real to kids when they have some degree f experience to draw on..even if it is “We don’t shoot Nerf darts at your sister because….”
March 5th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Hi All,
I frequently read here because I’ve helped Tracy with her web server from time to time.
I’ve been a firearms instructor for nearly 30 years so most people would consider me an “expert”.
I’ve also taught kids Karate and coached kids soccer for much of that time and, of course,have four children of my own.
I am frequently angered by so-called experts (usually anti-gun people who have little actual experience with firearms) sharing their zealous expertise with people about how they should and shouldn’t handle gun issues.
Tracy – great post. Parents should always ask these questions ESPECIALLY if the children are boys !
Now I’d like to address Sharron’s comments.
Sharron, I apologize for the tone that is to follow but I think what you have said above is grossly irresponsible and since it is printed here for all to read I feel compelled to comply.
Why on earth would you be offended by being asked if you have firearms in your house?
1.) Having provided defensive tactics training for Law Enforcement personal for 30 years I can assure you that the danger of violence in our homes is present and increasing even in our lovely rural communities. My personal belief is that parents who do NOT own a firearm, get professional training and practice periodically are irresponsible in not preparing for their children’s safety. We do fire drills don’t we? Would you be surprised to know that a child is far more likely to be the victim for violence than of fire ?
2.) I frequently ask if a household contains firearms before I let my children visit without my or my wife’s supervision. Many people how own firearms are simply not well trained in firearms safety. I have, on occasion asked to inspect the premiss in order to insure that firearms are safely stored. My children know not to touch a firearm but that will not prevent them from injury is ANOTHER child handles a loaded firearm. For that matter, I routinely run a background check on parents with whom my children will be spending time without my wife. Protecting my children’s welfare and happiness is the most important thing IO will ever do. Anyone who is offended by or declines to comply with my requests relative to my children’s safety while in their care is simply NOT going to be trusted with my child. If they are offended, I simply do not care. YOUR feeling boundaries are easily trumped by my concern for my children !
3.) When someone asks ME about firearms in my home, my confidence is inspired. That fact that they have done so suggests that they both take the safety of their children as seriously as I do and that they probably understand firearm safety better than the average person. Relative to guns, my child is likely to be safer in their home than in the home of someone who would not ask.
While firearms are only one danger. How a person responds to this question is an excellent indicator of OTHER safety factors.
This has nothing to do with my lack of ability to make sound judgments about people. There are MILLIONS of cases in the USA in which the nice next door neighbor turns out to be a pedophile. Trusting your “judgment’ instead of asking important questions will be of little comfort if you find yourself morning the accidental death of your child.
By the way, I also ask about pools, dogs, other household guests and anything else that circumstances suggest to me.
For the record.
All but one of my guns are secured in locked safes. The other one is in my possession. At night that firearm is in a location in which I can access it but it can not be reached by a child. It is NEVER left in a room un-accompanied.
My children are “gun aware”. They understand that guns are very dangerous. Whenever they see me handle a firearm they observe me executing safe practices at all times.
I allow my children to handle a firearm after they have asked and after I have insured that it is safely unloaded, I believe that doing so avoids I child becoming obsessed with doing something that they have been forbidden to do. (And yes, even the best behaved children are prone to this – it’s called curiosity.)
I have tested by children in regards to their respect of firearms and my instructions to never tough one without my help. To do this I used an training replica, which is a real gun except that it can not chamber or fire a live round. (These are used in training.) I placed the training weapon on the coffee table in my den and placed a very small chip on plastic on the pistol’s grip. If the gun was handled in any way the chip would fall off.
After several weeks of my children coming and going from my den, with and without me being present, the gun was never touched. They did, however point the gun out to me several times and remind me that it should be stored in the gun safe.) For the safety impaired NEVER EVER EVER do something like this with an actual firearm even if it is unloaded.
Violence is an unavoidable reality in the USA and no mater what the government wants you to believe, the frequency of violence in America is increasing. Guns are among us – like it or not.
I suggest you NEVER be too shy to ask questions that are honestly intended to insure your children’s safety and that you are never offended when other do.
Lastly, many people that have an inordinate fear of firearms do so because they know little or nothing about them. So here is an offer…..
If you live in NH and have a child and would like an introduction to firearms and firearm safety, have Tracy do an introduction and I’ll provide that introduction FREE OF CHARGE !
March 5th, 2012 at 10:16 pm
great topic.
years ago, my then 5 year old son came home from a playdate and told me that his friend’s father had shown him a gun and had let him hold the bullets. I was horrified for a few reasons. I realized I should have thought to ask about guns, but also, after several playdates, I had begun to feel uncomfortable about this family (too long of a story to explain why), but I had ignored my instincts and let him play over there anyway. I don’t believe the father put my son in danger, but given what an emotional topic this is for so many parents, I thought it exhibited really poor judgement on the part of the father to show my son the gun and hand him bullets without discussing it with me first. Anyway, I guess my point is that we should rely on both our intuitions and on questions to determine the safest environment for our kids.
For the record, I’ve been asked about firearms in our house (which we don’t have), and I wasn’t at all offended. Sharon, I have a sense from your comment that this parent had already rubbed you the wrong way. Perhaps the question was just the icing on the cake and that’s why you were so put out by it? Anyway, this post has reminded me to talk to my kids about guns. I haven’t talked to my son (now 14) in a LONG time about this. I can’t remember if I’ve talked to my daughter about it. I really appreciate the reminder!
March 6th, 2012 at 11:51 pm
What a thought-provoking conversation. Thank you to everyone for your comments and stories.
(First, I have to share that Joe has not only helped me from time to time, he has saved this blog from disaster on several occasions. We would in all likelihood not be having this or any other discussion in this forum without his past assistance.)
I’m glad people with different perspectives are weighing in here. Lindsay, I’ll tell you that I’m one of those parents who doesn’t permit toy guns in my house because I believe that there’s nothing fun or playful about guns; they are far too serious and consequential to be treated as amusements. Yes, I know my son can walk outside and pick up a stick and pretend it’s a rifle, but it’s not the same as consenting to playing with guns, and each denial of a toy gun comes with a discussion as to why I don’t think guns make appropriate toys.
I do, however, find myself wondering in a serious context about the allure of the forbidden and if complete ignorance is the best policy. I don’t really want my kids to have sex as teenagers, but I will make sure nonetheless that my kids, when they become teens, learn about safe sex so that they can protect themselves and others. Should they be taught some degree of the gun safety that Lindsay and Joe are talking about to protect themselves, too?
Deb: that’s a different situation entirely! I can’t believe another parent would show your five-year-old a real gun and hand him bullets when you’re not there and without your permission. That’s just over the line!
March 7th, 2012 at 1:07 am
When my little guy is old enough (he isn’t there yet) I will definitely enroll him in an ‘official’ firearms safety course. Kids are visual/tactile learners. I think it really helps to have real, meaningful, hands on experience and frank, honest conversation. Regarding guns, I think boys especially are easy prey to their innate curiosity. It was a very affirming moment for me as a mom when my son made the right choice and came to me instead of touching the gun. More importantly, my son was very proud of himself for making the right decision. It was the perfect outcome.
Tracy, Regarding gun safety classes or training:
Guns aren’t going to go away and they are more common than you’d think. There is a good chance your children will be exposed to firearms at some point. I think it is crucial that the first contact with any type of firearm be under the guidance of a professional or a knowledgable adult they know and trust. Maybe you and your son could enroll in a gun safety course together? There is no better way to lead than by example, right? And hey, Joe will do it for free!
March 30th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Wow, fabulous conversation!
Just want to clarify my comment, because Deb, you are absolutely right: the parent in question had already rubbed me the wrong way.
My offense was probably in fact plain old annoyance. What it was really about, though, wasn’t about being asked this specific question, but about what seemed to me to be a sort of knee-jerk approach, as if this dad was following a script rather than thinking things through. As we’ve all acknowledged here, there are indeed many other dangers in a home. Joe, I’m glad to hear you ask about those too. So when this dad asked only this one, single question, without spending the time to come into our house, stop and chat with me for a few, etc, I felt alerted to broader a danger that’s on the flip side of this coin: too much conditioning. (e.g., being conditioned to ask certain questions “because we’re supposed to.) I worry that when any parent focuses in too much on any particular issue or set of issues, or takes action because we’ve been told we should or because suddenly everybody else is worried about something, it’s easy to become less objective judges of real danger.
Maybe that’s not what this dad was doing, either, but from what I’d observed before, I couldn’t help feeling that way.
Make sense?
July 18th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
[...] Talking to Other Parents About Guns [...]
December 17th, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Obviously this topic has been weighing on my mind since I did a google search and ended up to this discussion.
I am really debating asking this question to other parents before I let my sons spend time at their house. We have a right and God-given responsibility to protect our children. On the other hand, in this day and age we, god-forbid, don’t want to offend anybody, like Sharon was offended. I am failing to understand how two simple questions can be construed as offensive: 1. Do you have firearms in the house? 2. If so, are they completely unaccessible (locked) to children? Hey, I’m sorry you are offended but if the answer to the second question is No, then the playdate is a no-go. I am entrusting my children to you, and in my opinion which is the only one that matters when it comes to my children, that is a completely unacceptable situation. Perhaps the more we ask these questions, the better the answers will become and the safer our homes will become.